Apr 23, 2019
Hello and welcome to the Story Engine podcast. My name is Kyle Gray. And today on the show we have Kyle Kingsbury. Kyle Kingsbury is the host of the Human Optimization Hour or maybe soon known as the Kyle Kingsbury show. This is a podcast put on by Onnit, a fitness and nutrition brand with a massive following and a very intelligent, detailed oriented audience and Kyle serves that audience very well through his curiosity and intelligence honed by spending many years as a UFC fighter and studying human optimization himself and by always being really well researched on his guest. We're going to learn a little bit about how he became the host of this podcast to put on by Onnit. Plus, we're going to learn some of the techniques that Kyle used as a fighter to keep his mind sharp and focused that he still uses today as a fully optimized peak performing human and content creating entrepreneur.
Key Takeaways
[2:17] How fighting was a catalyst for Kyle’s growth
[4:34] Kyle’s motivation for continuous learning
[6:36] The best way to self-educate
[8:31] Expanding your network through podcasting
[11:30] How to ask the best questions from your podcast guest
[14:51] Mind mastery techniques
[19:00] How breath work can change your life
[25:04] Understanding how to adjust the flow of dialogue with different podcast guests
[28:09] Social media tips for podcasts
[32:28] The most effective way to get the best guests
Links and Resources Mentioned in this Episode
Transcript
Kyle Gray:
Also, just a heads up Kyle curses a few times. So if that's not something you enjoy listening to, I recommend skipping this episode. So without any further ado, let's hand it over to Kyle. Kyle, thank you so much for joining us.
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Kyle Gray:
So, Kyle, you're a very interesting person living at the cross section of marketing and mixed martial arts. I would love to hear to open up the podcast, maybe a story from your life or your past, something that has defined who you are and really has led you to what you're doing today. And then from there, tell us a little bit about what you're up to today and how are you making an impact on the world.
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah, so I think the low hanging fruit is my fight career. I got into fighting after playing football at Arizona state and really just wanted some type of human interaction and some camaraderie with different people. And what I didn't realize as I started fighting was how much of a catalyst that would be from my own personal learning and growth. And that really just lit the fire for me to want to learn more about health and wellness, diet, nutrition. It gave me the first little understanding and planted the seed that, what I put in my body actually has an impact on how I think, how I feel, how I operate and how I recover. And then took a step further and started diving into Kelly Starrett's work, becoming a supple leopard, different things for mobility and how I can open up the body and everything in a biohacking since then.
Kyle Kingsbury:
So figuring out different ways to enhance recoveries through cold and hot therapy. Obviously, if you're listening to podcasts now, you're pretty much inundated with a gang of information. But yeah I started with podcasts and reading books, and I mean, I've probably read more in my fight career than I ever did in college and prior. And it was all things that fascinated me. So with that, retired about five years ago from fighting, I've just been on the path for growth and learning as much as I possibly can. And I have a podcast now, I work at Onnit and that allows me the ability to continue to learn and a report back what I find.
Kyle Gray:
I think that's really cool. And the theme that I heard both before we got on the recording and right now is that you love doing things that, that allows you to learn more and more. You've really leveraged your curiosity and your hunger for knowledge in some of the best ways. And I think that that's a valuable skill for anybody who wants to do content marketing. It's definitely something that I always appreciate. It's fun too whether you're working with a client or whether you're doing your own thing just to expand and grow your knowledge in order to create new things. Can you tell us a few stories of maybe how you discovered that are cultivated, that and what kind of doors that kind of curious mindset has really opened for you and how you use it today to make the Onnit podcasts so awesome?
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a loaded question. I feel like I've always been interested in learning. It's just that when I was in school, there was some things that I gravitated towards and some things that I didn't. I think that's true for a lot of people. When I was in college, I really enjoyed psychology and philosophy. Didn't want to be a therapist or any of that, but I still took all as many classes as I could because it was easy to digest. And I, and I like understanding how people tick, but there's no greater catalyst to want to be better and to want to do better than somebody trying to knock you out. So having those dates eight weeks or 12 weeks ahead of time with a contract signed off when I'm going to be stepping into occasion fighting somebody, that was all the motivation I needed to really want to learn more. Now I don't have obviously the same level of shit hitting the fan for lack of a better term. But that thirst is still there.
Kyle Kingsbury:
And what I've found post-college is that if it is something I enjoy, I have no problem sitting down and grinding through books because they're fascinating, and they're certainly as with anybody who's into reading, there might be a great topic, and you pick up a book that's recommended, and it just doesn't resonate, and that's fine. I could throw it back on the shelf and not worry about it. But more often than not, I find books now, especially being plugged into the community that I am with Aubrey Marcus and several other thought leaders, Dr. Peter Attia, people like that that really just the books that I'm getting are books that I'll finish very quickly. That as you know in podcasting you get to sit across from some pretty cool people and I think that's really been kind of the different avenue besides just studying in my own free time or at work I can really sit across from somebody and have that visceral understanding of what they're trying to convey and what they're all about.
Kyle Kingsbury:
Really trying on for size of what it is that they're into I think is the difference. It's one thing to read about a ketogenic diet. It's another thing to do it for two years. It's one thing to know that cold is really good for you. It's another thing to have your own chest freezer full of water and hydrogen peroxide where he can get in and make it a daily practice. And I think the more I can embody the things that I'm learning, the more wisdom I gain from that and the more real they become. So I think of things that really move the needle on physical wellness, cognitive optimization and peace of mind because we live in an overstressed society, and a lot of the things that I'm gravitating towards now have to do with what are the acute stressors I can bring into my life that gave me the most bang for my buck in the shortest amount of time?
The more you can embody the things that you are learning, the more wisdom you gain
Kyle Kingsbury:
And what are the ways that I can reduce chronic stress, which is usually mental, emotional stuff. So meditation practices of various forms and different ways to quiet my mind to become pretty instrumental in my life right now.
Kyle Gray:
Wow. There are so many different directions I want to go with this, but kind of the first one, a big theme that you mentioned alongside with wanting to learn more is meeting new people, connecting with new people. And I think that that's one of my favorite parts about creating content or having a podcast. And just before we got on, you mentioned this has been kind of an integral part of what you've been doing. It's helped you meet new people, make new connections, and further get awesome opportunities. Can you tell us a little bit, do you have that certain approaches to reaching out and making new connections with the podcast outside of the podcast? Then maybe tell us a few stories of some not bigger podcasts you've landed on or cool connections you've made through this.
Kyle Kingsbury:
I mean, I'd like to say that I have some magic formula for getting guests, but truly it's I'm a product of my environment. The fact that I'm the Director of Human Optimization at Onnit. I'm sure a lot of people take me a little bit more seriously when I ask them to come on the show. Having a fight career as a professional athlete also gives me a little bit of street cred to when it comes to performance and things of that nature. But going on bigger shows, it's funny, and it's like the wealthy get wealthier and then that's kinda how it goes as I've gone on Joe Rogan's now a couple of times, it becomes a lot easier to get on bigger shows.
Kyle Kingsbury:
There are quite a few people, it's almost like an alumni group of people that have been on the Joe Rogan Experience. And I've had a really big impact from going on that podcast, and a lot of people have started podcasts because of being guests on that show, myself included. So really I think having that one thing in common, just like if you were in the same fraternity in college or something like that, that's something that I lean heavily on. And I've gotten quite a few guests from his show, and I don't know what it is, if it's like collective consciousness or what, but quite often I'll land a guest, I had Gabby Reece and Laird Hamilton, I just booked in last week and Gabby just went on Joe's yesterday and Laird Hamilton's going on next week. So oftentimes we do get the same guests to go on our show, and they can be big named people.
Kyle Kingsbury:
But what's cool about that is his format is so much different, you know what I mean? You go 30 to 40 minutes, I go 45 to 90, and he's doing three-hour podcasts. So in terms of the long form in-depth interview where you can talk about random shit and big foot and all that stuff, he owns that space. But what's cool is if I get a guest that's been on his show, I can really pick the nuggets that I really want to focus on and then dive into those. And I think that's one of the things that makes the Human Optimization Hour, my podcast special.
Kyle Gray:
Yeah. With your podcast and with the Onnit podcast and the guests that you bring on, are you usually following your own interest as it unfolds on the interview or are you doing a lot of research up front to make sure you get the best questions for your guests?
Kyle Kingsbury:
So it's actually the same podcast that used to be called the Onnit podcast, and then we changed it to the Human Optimization Hour, it's the only podcast I run that may be getting a facelift soon and just becoming the Kyle Kingsbury podcast just so there's a little bit more differentiation and it allows me to have an even bigger umbrella of guests to have on and topics to cover. But with that, that's something I pride myself on. A lot of these guys like Rogan and Ferris, they're so damn busy, they don't have time to read someone's entire book or the last two books they've written before they interview them and if they really liked the interview, often they'll read the book after the fact. But I have that kind of time where I can read a book really if I appreciate it, can reach out to the person and get them on the show.
Kyle Kingsbury:
And then from there the amount that I can cover it in an hour with that person having read something, they put the last two to three years of their life into it. It sets the bar a little bit higher in my opinion. Not to pump my own breaks and brag or anything like that. But I mean, like the time you put in is critical. I did a podcast with a guy named Josh Trent who Wellness Force Radio. He's out at Paleo f(x) quite often, and we have a lot of the same friends, and he had an iPad that had pages of questions to ask me. I've never met somebody who had done more homework on me to interview me than him. And it was a really cool experience, but it was eye-opening in that I'll do the homework on an author and somebody who's been ... If they host a podcast, I'll listen to their podcasts, you, what's going on and get a little bit more data collected on what kind of podcast it is and what are the topics they usually cover.
Kyle Kingsbury:
But if they haven't and I know very little bit about them, I don't necessarily go to town trying to figure stuff out and get a background story. Up until that point, once I did that podcast, I was like, damn, all right, this guy's, he's raising the bar having guests, because I don't have a book. Obviously, I have a podcast, and people can draw a lot from that. But the amount of effort he put into the pre-podcast show was really incredible. And that kind of changed the way I look at things going forward.
Kyle Gray:
I like that, and that's a really good detail. It gives you an opportunity not only to bring out the best in the guest but by setting up good questions you set yourself up, and you can really make sure you're harming the very best conversations possible. So I think that that's a great strategy.
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah. Tim Ferriss, he used to say, yeah, can I ask better questions? That was a question he would ask himself all the time. Can I ask better questions? And that's it. Just really trying to reframe and get people talking about the things that matter and things that resonate with your listeners. And something in Mind Pump taught me, they're three fitness dudes. They're definitely bros, but they've got a big podcast over a million downloads a month, and they're doing very well, and they're friends of mine, but they said you hit the lowest common denominator. So for people that are podcasting, it's easy to talk about the things that you're passionate about, and I'm passionate about a lot of fringe things or things that aren't necessarily mainstream. But if I can speak about it in a way that hits the lowest common denominators and I speak to more people and that's really important because depending on what language I use, I can speak very well to a small group or I can speak broadly and paint with a broad brush and with that I can gather more people to hear the message.
Kyle Kingsbury:
And I think that's really what it's all about as just conveying things in a way that's easier to understand but also is an off-putting to certain groups of people.
Kyle Gray:
Definitely. Yeah. And considering you want to know your audience and be able to create the very best things for them. On the kind of cross-section of nutrition and training and kind of this mental sharpness and mental clarity, the human optimization that you love to explore. So you started this in your fighting career, but now it carries over, and I would love to know maybe just some of what you've learned in those terms that something that you've learned in your fight career that can translate to most entrepreneurs, whether it's mindset, whether it's how to take care of yourself or how to even see. You mentioned kind of managing both emotional and physical energies. What are some of the translations?
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah, I mean the first time I got into really looking at the mental side of things wasn't fighting. Obviously, the cage door shut, it's game time, the heart's pounding out of your chest, everyone's watching. It can be pretty, or you could be doing good, and then you get hit really hard. And like Mike Tyson says, everyone has a game plan until they get hit in the face. So you have to kind of recenter yourself and focus on the task at hand. I started working with a couple of different sports psychologists while I was fighting one, worked with me on breath work and how to quiet my mind. The other worked with me on visualization, and that was really my first entry point into mind mastery. From then I've read several books that you might call spiritual or self-help based on everything from Dr. Wayne Dyer to Eckhart Tolle's work and then now really taking a deeper approach with breath work.
Kyle Kingsbury:
We've had a couple of guys on the show that have been incredible. Rob Wilson and Ryan McKenzie who runs the Art of Breath and they have powerendurance.com is where they do this. I have no affiliation with them, but they have the most in-depth breadth protocol known to man, and they've studied everybody from Wim Hof to, forget the name of the guy, he's an Irish guy. He wrote the Oxygen Advantage, Patrick McKeown. So I mean they've really have brought up different systems for pre-workout into workout, post workout recovery, how to calm yourself before you go to bed, how to excite yourself if you don't want a cup of coffee, but you need to raise your energy. So having these guys out here at Onnit. And that's another cool thing that I get to do is, if somebody is a master of something and they teach seminars. I can invite them in to do a seminar, and then I get to attend that seminar.
Kyle Kingsbury:
So really to have the immersive experience and learn firsthand, that's been a game changer. But I would say for anybody, no matter what you do, whether you're a pro athlete or you're just a pro-businessman, or you're a stay at home mom, mastery of breath is absolutely critical because we can hijack our own nervous system and really reset and move the bar any direction we want. Whether we need to get up or we need to get down. That's where I would start. And then from there, finding different ways to meditate and quiet the mind that's going to benefit everyone. I don't know anybody here in the west, I've never met a single person in the states who just has everything figured out, and they are 100% dialed in, and they never get frazzled when life throws a challenge their direction.
Kyle Kingsbury:
So I think, and that's still a work in progress for me, no doubt. But that's why it's one of my biggest focuses. And I think the more I focused on that in, the more time and effort I put into that, the better. But really fighting taught me a lot about that. But that pie chart of a 24 hour day and what I do with that and my boss and friend Aubrey Marcus really put that all together in Own the Day, Own Your Life. His book, which takes you through one perfect 24-hour cycle, how to master sleep, sex, food, working out, you name it. And I think it's really thinking about those things in the short-term, mastery over what's right in front of me right now has been far more important than really focusing on the long-term big goals.
Kyle Kingsbury:
And I think the more effort I put into filling my cup each day with a little bit of breathing, a little bit of movement, a little bit of working in, meditation and things like that, the better I feel and of course I still work out and I do different things, but I don't train like I used to. I might lift weights twice a week now, and that's just because I enjoy it, but not because I have to, so striking balance. It looks different for different people. Some people might be really into meditation and Yoga, but they never pick up a weight. That might be the thing they need to focus on to achieve balance. But for me it's been slowing down, quieting my mind and doing a little bit less.
Kyle Gray:
I love that, and I really agree on a lot of what you're saying here. And I would love to hear mostly from personal interest, a little bit more practical steps on breath work. I've recently started studying Wim Hoff myself and just within like five minutes, seven minutes breathing like that, you can create real changes that you can feel and very like visceral experiences. I was really blown away the first time just entering into a lot of these things at how much was possible. And so you've studied a lot of the different masters, and I'd love to hear some of the things like, I think anybody would love to know how you can pick yourself up if you're not feeling 100% energy or how to calm yourself down, what are some good breathing techniques for that?
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah. So I encourage people to go to WimHoffmethod.com that was my first entry point into breath work where I did his $200 10 week course. He teaches you yoga, how to get into the introductory phase for cold therapy. And then, of course, his breath work and breath work might be the most important. I mean it's hard to say the cold is a great teacher as he says. But one of my favorite quotes from Wim is feeling is believing. So don't take my word for it, just do it. And if you do it, you're going to feel different. And now there's science that backs that up, there're studying him at Harvard, there were quite a few studies done in the Netherlands where he's from, and now they're back in that upstate side and really substantiating things that there are elements of our body that we can control.
Kyle Kingsbury:
The autonomic nervous system that we thought was the autopilot of human consciousness is completely within our grasp and our reach to control. And so how we reframe things is really up to us. But that just takes the intention of where we want to go. So if you all want to gear up and really wake myself up and get high on my own supply as he's talking about with the breath, which is 100% true, taking really deep inhalations all the win halfway out, on repeat for 30 to 50 breaths with a full exhale and hold and then a full inhale and hold. And then you start round two. I mean you can go as long as you want to go, but just three to five rounds typically have 30 to 50 breaths is enough to feel a big difference.
Kyle Kingsbury:
And if you're feeling down or depressed or sad or lonely or overworked and stressed, I mean this is a great way to reset the neurochemistry, you boost dopamine and all sorts of neurotransmitters. You boost adrenaline and different factors that influence the immune system in a positive way. I mean, there's a ton of wonderful things that can happen from that. And that's just one of the many forms of breath work I think for quieting the mind in pre-bedtime or premeditation even. It's good to ramp up for a second. So pranayama, the breath of fire, all nasal. I usually do that for two to three minutes, just a dump, and then I'll start to slowly inhale and slowly exhale through my nose. All nasal. Really what I'm trying to accomplish there is double the exhale of my inhale. So if I'm inhaling for a four count, I'm going to exhale for eight counts at minimum.
Kyle Kingsbury:
You can extend that out as much as you want and you can go 10, 20, or you can go five, 20 however you want to cut it, it's fine. Just make sure that you're at least twice as long on the exhale. And that's been shown to help us dip from the sympathetic fight or flight state back into a parasympathetic rest and digest. Very calm state, which is critical before we go to bed. But if you're the type of person, and I've been this person who lays in bed awake at night, it's usually because that's the first time of the day you're sorting your shit out. So if I haven't had time to contemplate the day and the only time that I find stillness is when I lie in bed, right before I go to sleep, everything that happened in that day is going to come up for me.
Kyle Kingsbury:
So I think the pairing that goes along with breath work and meditation is contemplation. It's this idea that I'm going to take a look at everything that happened and if there's something that I didn't like, then I'm going to come to grips with that. If there are the things that I like, then I'm going to celebrate those small wins. And then that's at least not the first time I've carved out quiet time or alone time for myself. So when I do lay down, I've covered all the bases. I know what I'm doing tomorrow, I know what happened today, and I'm good to just relax, slow my breathing down, and jump into a restful sleep. And I think that's a big one for people is that so much so many of us wake up, we throw the TV on or the radio, we slam a quick coffee and a donut.
Kyle Kingsbury:
We jump in our cars where we're sitting, we get to work where we sit more, we come home from work, we sit on the couch, we sit on TV, and we eat a TV dinner or whatever the case is. And then you lay down in bed, and that's the first time you're alone with yourself, and that's a fucking big problem. So I think having that ability to dip in throughout the day, and it doesn't have to be an hour long meditation session, but even just going for a one-mile walk when you finish work can be really powerful too. So little things like that make a big difference before you go to bed at night.
Kyle Gray:
So practical and so easy. Yeah. Just to close it off, I can't speak highly enough for the benefits I've been getting from Wim Hoff and any kind of breath work. And it sounds to somebody who hasn't tried any of these things or consider these things before they sound silly, but it doesn't take long at all to start seeing real benefits from that. So really powerful stuff. And anybody can have their day be better no matter if you're a high performing entrepreneur, a high performing fighter or anywhere in between. Powerful stuff. I'd like to move us back a little bit towards the podcast and back towards the theme of learning and kind of reinventing yourself, and you mentioned right now you're going through a rebrand on your podcast and you've spent a lot of time reflecting like on, "Oh, I should prepare my questions a little bit more." What are some of the big learning moments in the Human Optimization podcast where you have decided I need to change course a little bit here or I need to improve it. And how did you make these discoveries?
Kyle Kingsbury:
Well, we have a pretty big social media following at Onnit, so we get some good feedback on a lot of these things. I think there are a couple of things. One, the delineation between who's trolling and who's actually giving meaningful criticism has been huge because we have a giant following for onnit.com far more than or more than myself, my own personal accounts on Instagram and Twitter. But generally speaking, most people have something nice to say and what they would change differently. I've had some comments about how often I curse and so even though I've done that already on this podcast, that is something I'm not going to stop doing, but I'm certainly going to do less of also knowing as we know our audience, knowing our guests. I had doctor Andrew Huberman who's a Stanford neurologist, he's a professor, a tenured professor and a Ph.D. I'm not going to say the F-bomb in front of that guy, or as little as possible Dr. Dominic D'agostino, same thing.
Kyle Kingsbury:
Whereas if I am with Mine Pump, who's three actual friends that I communicate with outside of the podcast, there's gonna be quite a few F-bombs in that podcast. So I think just listening to people it does invite more to the show if there's less of that. And just using that when I really feel the need to emphasize something or it comes out naturally has been big for me. But also I'd say one of the biggest changes in the podcast, something I learned from a guy named Aaron Alexander, who's also good friends with Dr. Grace Lou, is to kind of get out of the way. Like you'll know when you have a podcast guest who needs encouragement and direction, and we have conversations, so it's very easy to go back and forth in those situations. But when I have a guest who I can lob softball pitches underhand and they can just crank them out of the park, like I'm just going to get out of the way. Let me give you a couple of really easy ones and let them just run with it. I think as with anything, it's just time in.
Kyle Kingsbury:
That's what they used to talk about infighting in the UFC, the more time you have, the more cage time you have, the better experience you have, the more situational awareness you get. And I think that's true of anything in life. So the more I've been able to podcast, the easier it is to figure that out. When I'm with a guest, like, damn, this person's got a lot to say, everything's resonating with me. They don't need a whole lot of direction. And I'll be very quiet in podcasts like that because they can just run with it. And it's not even if the title becomes the Kyle Kingsbury show, it's really not the Kyle Kingsbury show, it's about the guests. And I think whoever I brought on giving them that leeway and taking off any leash rope that they might have so they can express themselves fully. That's been really cool to learn and to be able to do.
Kyle Kingsbury:
And then not everybody's going to be an expert and have everything to say, and some people are coming on a podcast for the first time. So just knowing that ahead of time and then really feeling it out and knowing I may have to carry this at some points, but for the most part, giving people the opportunity to speak when there are guests I think has been critical as well.
Kyle Gray:
Absolutely. You mentioned on this that you get a lot of good feedback from the Onnit social media and I'm certain that you've got a large social media team and that you're using a lot of people to promote this podcast, repurpose the content and get feedback. Can you tell us a little bit about the team structure and some of the process for promoting the podcast and getting it out to people and also how you collect feedback and how do those messages make it to you? Are you checking the comments or what does that look like?
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah. So Onnit started as a supplement company has really become a lifestyle brand where we share all sorts of content. We have full-time writers on staff who write blogs, and different various topics to nutrition to diet to you name it. We already have everything in place. It's truly a turnkey operation. And in that, we have a social media team. We have people who are devoted to finding the most impactful clips from each podcast and then putting that into a one minute clip for Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. But yeah, as I stated earlier, there is an invitation for trolls online on, especially on social media. So when it comes down to it, it's really, as I said, it's not the Kyle Kingsbury show, even if that's the title, it is about the guest. So every clip that we use, nine times out of 10 is going to be the guests, not me.
Kyle Kingsbury:
Even if I said something great or grandiose, we're not going to use that clip. We're going to run with the guests' clip. And I think having a good rapport with the guests so they can jump online and manage ... We just had the Art of Breath guys on, and they were talking about humans being the only people that really consciously control their breath, and everyone and their mom came out and said, "Dolphins, what about dolphins? Dolphins, dolphins." And so I hit up my buddy Rob Wilson, and he got on there and really explained the difference in what people were trying to troll us to what he actually meant in that statement. And it's hard when you take an hour long or 90-minute long podcast and cut it down to a one minute clip, things get taken out of context, and it can be misconstrued.
Kyle Kingsbury:
But truthfully, if you have people that care about the opinion of others and care about how they come across, then they have no problem jumping on and going to bat for themselves. Really, I have the final say on what gets posted. So I'm not going to ... Some of the more controversial things, what I've found is that if somebody is going to spend an hour listening to a podcast, typically they're on board. Even if they don't agree with me, they can listen and not feel compelled to talk shit online as opposed to somebody who's only watching that one minute clip. I mean, there are people that follow us online that are only looking to jump on our asses. I have a lot of followers from being on Rogan's different things like that. And it amazes me how not on Kyle's brand, people are, post-gay pride a thing because I'm from the bay area and that stuff doesn't bother me at all.
Kyle Kingsbury:
I think it's silly that that bothers people. But I was blown away even just last month by how many people would come on to say like, this is wrong. I can't believe you'd post this Kyle. And they're very homophobic and a lot less cultured than I thought they'd be. But that's kind of the understanding that I take with it is there is a weeding out process, and that's totally acceptable for me to lose followers who are not in line with my frame of thinking. And again, I don't want a bunch of yes men and yes women that are like, "Oh, he's the greatest, I like everything he says." You want active feedback from your listeners, and hopefully, we can all come as a society to a place where we can listen to one another. And if we don't agree, that's fine. It's not, "F you, I'm Outta here. This guy's a quack job."
Kyle Kingsbury:
It's, Oh I like 80% of what you're saying. But I disagree with that last part. And that's okay. We can agree to disagree. That's where I really try to leave the rub in the science of things and having experts on. But of course I'm a human, and I have my own opinions. And I think that's something to really, to know what I should be concerned with and what I shouldn't is a great rule of thumb.
Kyle Gray:
Well, and it's really good information because no matter who you are and what you're doing, once you start getting some traction, it's going to be inevitable that things like that happen and you're going to get the trolls and the haters. And so it's good to be prepared and to know how to handle that and to know what to really listen to and what not too. So I think that's good information. And then one thing I wanted to close on was you mentioned you care very much about your guest, then you do a lot of research, and so I'm certain that there's also a very high bar for the guests you have on the show. And it sounds like a lot of them come through word of mouth or your own personal interests, you reach out to them. But I'm certain that you get a lot of a request to come on the show and I'm wondering do certain requests come through and what is somebody that can get your attention that would want to go on the show? What does that look like versus probably 90% of the outreach, which is maybe just kind of a half-assed email or something?
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah, I mean 90% of the outreach is the email and for whatever reason, I mean, I certainly am not going to give any advice on how to contact me to on the show if he knows. I would say one in 100 are a guest that I was unaware of that reached out to me and I was like, yeah, I'll have you on. And the times that I've done that maybe a smaller percentage of those people, I actually enjoyed the conversation quite often where I'm like, "Yeah, I'll have you on. Sure. You sound like an interesting person." Then I have them on. And I'm like, "Damn, that was a big mistake." And it's gotta be released as a bonus episode. But yeah you have friends in the podcast game, they're like, "Dude, you got a podcast with so and so." I'm like, all right, well now what I do is kind of a vetting process where I say, have they written a book, they've been on podcasts? And if they've written a book, then I might dive into it a little bit. If I like the synopsis of it or if they have been on podcasts, that's a very clear cut way for me to see, do I like how they communicate? Do I like what they're talking about?
Kyle Kingsbury:
And because truthfully in this, which is the modern era of radio, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. I mean the content of what is very important, but it is how you say it. And there's a lot of people in the podcast game who have a lot of beautiful and intelligent and wise things to say, but they don't do it in a way that resonates with me. And honestly, if it doesn't resonate with me, it's not going to resonate with a lot of people listening. So, and I say that not because I have an ear for podcasting. I say that because I'm pretty lax on my requirements. If I really enjoy what somebody's saying in terms of the content, they don't have to be excellent speakers per se, just because I think the things that they're saying or of value, if I do believe that, but at the same time, somebody who's been on a podcast more than once and has an idea or is just a good speaker in general.
Podcasts are the modern era of radio; it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.
Kyle Kingsbury:
I mean professors are incredible speakers because they're always talking to students so they can damn well articulate exactly what they want to say and how they want to say it. And I think with that, that just leads to better content for people because it's more digestible and you want to listen to that person.
Kyle Gray:
And I think that that gives us a great framework to work with a lot of people who are creating content and wanting to get better known, perhaps not the best strategy right out the gates has to blast emails that everybody possible to try and get on shows that are building a network, just like what you've been doing. You mentioned the kind of alumni network with being on the Joe Rogan Experience. You get these different people that you're connected with, and it becomes easier to find guests that way and get on other shows. So instead of sometimes trying to come up with the cleverest outreach tactics, it's better to just build your own brand and build your notoriety and build organic relationships so.
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah, and I think having it hand to hand, like obviously Rogan has definitely afforded me a lot of luxuries in the podcast space, but most often I'll have a guest on, we'll hit it off, I'll roll out the red carpet for them and then they'll give me three or four other amazing guests to have. And that just keeps that one seed plants three or four more, and it just goes on repeat like that. I think that's one of the more critical things to do if you podcast to somebody that really resonates with you and you hit it off, and you have a great conversation, and they like the conversation, they like you as a host. It's a lot easier to say, "Hey, if you think anybody else that you know would be a great guest for this show. Please let me know." And overwhelmingly that's been my guest list has come straight from the guests that I've had on the show. I would say 80% of the guests I've had have been that.
Kyle Gray:
Beautiful. Kyle, we've explored so much in the realms of podcasting and mindset and health. We've covered a lot today, and I'm not a lot of fun. If there's a place where our listeners are really enjoying, where can we go and find more of your content or check you out more?
Kyle Kingsbury:
Yeah. Well, for now, the Human Optimization Hour podcast with Kyle Kingsbury, it's on iTunes [inaudible 00:36:32] every place you'll find a good podcast. Find me online on Twitter and Instagram @kingsbu K-I-N-G-S B-U, and then on onnit.com, we've got tons of content, post videos there. If you follow Onnit @onnit for Instagram and Twitter, you'll see clips from the podcast, and you can really dive into what you like.
Kyle Gray:
Awesome. Kyle, thank you so much for joining us today.
Kyle Kingsbury:
Hell yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you, brother.
Kyle Gray:
Thanks for listening to the Story Engine Podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes and resources mentioned in this episode and every episode at thestoryengine.comif you want to tell better stories and grow your business with content marketing and copywriting, be sure to download the content strategy template, at contentstrategytemplate.comthis template is an essential part of any business that wants to boost their traffic, leads and sales with content marketing. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.