Preview Mode Links will not work in preview mode

The Story Engine Podcast: Where we teach you how to make marketing easier, more powerful and fun through storytelling. Each week we learn from top entrepreneurs, influencers and world-changers on how to share your story through content, copywriting, speaking and how to make your story your most powerful marketing tool.

Nov 20, 2018

Hello everyone, and welcome to the Story Engine podcast. Today on the show I have Jonathan Cronstedt, AKA, the JCron, he is the founder of Kajabi, one of the fastest growing, most successful online learning course creation platforms out there. And he has created a story-based business with Kajabi and we are going to learn all of the different elements of how he's created stories in it, which I think is gonna be very useful. We'll learn about the name of Kajabi, which is kind of an interesting story behind that. The meaning was actually found after the name, so you'll get to hear about that. We're all going to learn about Kajabi Heroes, this is a very interesting story-driven program that rewards people as they progress and as they succeed with Kajabi and this could be something you can emulate and apply to your own business.

So this interview is chock full of so many good nuggets of information whether you're trying to build your own course, whether you're trying to build a community of people who just love what you're doing and celebrate their wins with you, or whether you're trying to create a killer team in a very competitive and powerful environment. Great stuff for you, so let's hand over the mic to JCron.


Key Takeaways

[5:20] How to create your future of freedom

[7:02] Kajabi: What it is and how it was started

[9:39] The story behind the name Kajabi

[13:22] Kajabi Heroes

[16:33] The strategy that will turn customers into loyal fans

[20:34] What’s more important than the marketing medium you use

[22:18] The purest aspect of sales

[30:49] Why you should hire entrepreneurs


Links and Resources Mentioned in this Episode


Kajabi Blog

Jonathan Cronstedt LinkedIn

Kajabi Facebook

Kajabi Twitter

Kajabi Instagram

Kajabi YouTube

Think and Grow Rich




Kyle Gray:          

Jonathan, welcome to the Story Engine podcast, I am so excited to talk to you today because we are going to cover so many things around just education and storytelling, you are at the forefront of both of these fields, as far as the digital space goes, so thanks for being with us here today.


Oh, Kyle, an absolute pleasure and by the way you can go ahead and call me JCron, literally anybody listening or anybody that you say, "Who're you on with?" If you say, "Jonathan Cronstedt," they're probably gonna be really confused. I got a nickname early on in this industry of JCron because my last name is just challenging to pronounce. So, please call me JCron and no doubt about it, as President of Kajabi, the story is at the forefront of everything that we do. I'm excited to geek out about this with you today.

Kyle Gray:          

Okay, JCron, that's what it will be then. What I want to start on, and of course I want you to really share the story of Kajabi, but I think that one of the most exciting things that I like to ask our guests is a story that from your own life that really has defined who you are and how you show up in the world today and that has left echoes through all of the work and business you do.


So I would probably say I'd go back to ... I was probably about 12 or 13 and I actually remember it very vividly because I grew up in a family where network marketing was a buzzword. My mom had been on the corporate side of network marketing for a long long time. And so the first book at 12 that my mom bought me was actually, "Think and Grow Rich," by Napoleon Hill. And it's interesting because I would say today I view the book differently then I did then, but what really that book did for me was it introduced me to the fact that if I'm taking responsibility for my life, I can literally create anything. And it went through so many amazing examples of different disciplines and people that have achieved success in different disciplines but really helping you understand that if you master the inner game of it, really anything is possible.

If you master the inner game of any discipline, anything is possible

So for me, I've had an amazing career. I've been extremely blessed to work with some of the greatest organizations in their areas of expertise and it's been something that has had a lot of reinventions over time. And it's that unfailing belief that you truly can create whatever you're looking to create that has helped me find and connect those processes as I've gone through them. So I would say that's definitely one that has built that theme of not only responsibility and ownership but also the ability to create, the ability to effectively envision a future that you want and bring it into being.

Kyle Gray:          

JCron, what is this future that you want? What are you really trying to create here? Because it seems like you've put a lot of thought into this and I think one of the most beautiful lessons in life ... I certainly experience it the way you were talking about, is a lesson that you kind of you stumble upon over and over again in your life, "Wow, I thought I learned this or I thought I mastered it." And you see it maybe from a different level than before and you're changing and you get new value out of it. So tell me your future that you want to create and then tell me how you are doing that at Kajabi.


Definitely. So I would actually say to describe the future that I am most excited about that is near and dear to the Kajabi message and one of the reasons that I was so excited to join the Kajabi team. I'm actually going to steal it directly from Patty McCord's book, "Powerful," which was on the Netflix Culture. I think she really described it best as a future of freedom and responsibility. That we as entrepreneurs today have access to technology that we've never had access to before, that gives us the ability to work location independent. That provides an ability to impact things faster than ever before. That this idea of freedom, of really being able to exist in the world in whatever way that you would like, is very very exciting.                       

And I think that the book and An To Freedom is responsibility. That without taking responsibility for your life, your circumstances, what you're creating, and that element of ownership in participating in it, without that, you can't ever have freedom. I think that right now, if I look at the future that I'm most excited about, that we at Kajabi are hoping to equip, is for those that do take responsibility on the creation side, the world of freedom is there and we are equipping them to take advantage of it. That we really are seeing what technology has the ability to do in the lives of entrepreneurs and we've seen tremendous success as a result of it. Understanding that the yin and yang of freedom and responsibility is key to being able to create that.

Kyle Gray:          

I think that's beautiful. And for the sake of the listeners who may not be familiar with your platform, break it down a little bit more for us and what does Kajabi do, who uses it, and why? What happens when they do?


Definitely. So Kajabi is a knowledge commerce platform. It basically to describe what knowledge commerce is it's kind of like Shopify except for digital product entrepreneurs, rather than physical products. So if you go back to our founding, eight years ago, Kenny Rueter, our CEO basically had this idea for a kid's toy. He called it Crazy Spray. And it was this PVC pipe thing that kids would drive their bikes through, kind of like a car wash for your bike, basically. Really cool toy idea and it really came with a lot of logistical complications. Because it's like, "Oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to figure out sourcing, and manufacturing, and assembly and all of these things." It was like, "Why not just put up an instruction manual and some videos and sell the kit online with a buyer's guide?" Hey, "Go to Home Depot, buy the stuff, skip the shipping, way easier."

And it really spawned this realization that even being a developer, it wasn't easy. It was very very complicated to try and get this online, get people to purchase it, get people the videos and instructions and all of those things and the idea for Kajabi was born out of that frustration of, "It shouldn't be this hard to share something I'm passionate about online, and profit from it." And we've really been lock, stock, and barrel on that vision for the last eight years. Four of which have been spent on the Inc. 5000 fastest growing companies list.

We've seen tens of thousands of businesses started here at Kajabi and we've seen people have the success of six, seven, even eight-figure businesses annually, that run on the platform. So it's really been amazing to watch this inflection point as people are beginning to look at online entrepreneurship, but also seeing the idea of what edutainment is. Entertainment and education, what that looks like with the technology of today. Kajabi is really at the forefront of letting people define how they want to learn, who they want to learn from and we're a platform that's empowering people to teach them.

Kyle Gray:          

Wow, so you're impacting the world in multiple ways through this. You're not only bringing empowerment to entrepreneurs and content creators, but I think one of the really cool things is you're allowing consumers to direct their own education and really open up opportunities to learn things that have never ... It's unprecedented in this world. One of the things I've been really curious about before we go into ... There's a lot of things that you just shared that I want to explore. But let's go into the name of the company. Because I'm sure as a story-driven company, as yourself, there's got to be something interesting behind that name.


There absolutely is because it's funny because originally and I would love to tell you that it was serendipitous, that it was literally from day one a purposeful choice. It was actually something that we had the dot com and we didn't actually find out the meaning of it until after we had already chosen it as the name of the company. But it is actually an Aboriginal term that means, "to take flight." You might see ... A tribe sees a flock of birds go by and they would actually use the term, "Kajabi," to describe this idea of flight. And it's funny because we didn't know it at the time but in many ways the name chose us. Because looking back on it now, I couldn't think of a better, more appropriate way to describe `what we do for an entrepreneur and we didn't know that at the outset. So kind of a cool story of serendipity and maybe I guess it's sometimes better to be lucky than good.

Kyle Gray:          

I think that's amazing and I think it speaks to something a little bit deeper that happens in life. A very think and grow rich "ish" where you have your vision when you know how you want to make an impact in the world and you know where you're going. Just sometimes things seem to line up in weird ways that you don't expect.


No absolutely. The forces of the universe meet you where you need them.

Kyle Gray:          

Definitely and so and part of that you've not only done that for yourself, but you've done that for a lot of the entrepreneurs that you work with. And something that really caught my eye in what you're doing is the Kajabi Hero program. And I'd love to learn a little bit more about that. Because what I've observed in this is you're building a culture within your users and your content creators and it creates again a deeper meaning into engaging and working with you and it builds, a tribe or a flock like what you were just describing. Yeah, it's fascinating how so many facets of the name are coming together in so many different ways but yeah, so tell us about the Kajabi Hero.


Well, I can definitely talk about that program for I mean gosh, the lion's share of our time together today because it's one of the things that we are not only the proudest of, but most excited about at Kajabi and I would say that I've got kind of two versions of how I would describe the program. One of them is a bit raw, and I think there's an incredible wisdom behind it, but the quote that I use to encapsulate it, might be a bit polarizing. The other one is a very family friendly, easy quote and I'll let you choose which one you'd like.

Kyle Gray:          

I think I always tell people to be polarizing on this show.


Let's go polarizing.

So, Napoleon Bonaparte, one of the greatest generals of all time. One of the greatest leaders of men, and one of the greatest military strategists of the world, he actually has a quote that I've always thought was so instructive and its rawness actually helps me remember it. But he basically says, my life as the general changed when I recognized that men would die for a blue ribbon.

And what that means is that, and the way that I take it, you know, some people it might be polarizing, it might be offensive. To me, the way that I take that is it basically talks to the fact that we as human beings have such a craving, such a deep-seated desire to be recognized and celebrated, that we would literally take on any challenge, if we feel that in our victory we will have that recognition, we will have that celebration, we have that validation of the journey that we've just undertaken.

And so it's something that the Kajabi Hero program, we really do view this as our gift. Our incredible desire to celebrate these brave individuals that have taken a different path for their career. You know, a lot of times of it's, and you and I are online entrepreneurs. The idea of building a business and leveraging technology is nothing new and it doesn't sound crazy. But for lots of people in Kajabi, it may be something where they're telling their friends, their spouse, their parents, whoever it happens to be, "Yeah, I'm going to use my passion and I'm going to teach online and I'm going to turn it into a career." And there's normally a lot of resistance there. There's a lot of, well wait a second. How are you going to do that? Or who are you to teach? You're not an expert. Or nobody makes money online.

There are all of these mental hurdles that albeit, completely fake and uninformed, are hurdles nonetheless. So when we have someone in the Kajabi hero program who has launched their course, made their first $1000, we are literally tickled pink to send them our a t-shirt that says, "You made it. You did it. You're among friends that chose the path that you did, and we want to recognize you and celebrate you because we know that this was not an effortless journey for you."

Maybe you launched your first course and had amazing immediate success. But there probably was someone in your life that made you feel pretty crazy that you were going to launch a course. We want to recognize that, we want to validate that, we want to celebrate that. And the main reason that we want to do that is twofold. Number one, for the person who is being accomplished and celebrating their accomplishments. But also by celebrating them and by showing others what's possible. Every success story is another opportunity for someone to say, "You know what, I can do that." Or, "You know what, I took their course and there might be a course inside me that I want to share. There might be a product inside me that I believe I can bring to the world, and the world will be a better place because of it." So, it's got two divergent outcomes. And they're fairly closely linked.

One of them is we really want to celebrate the person for their accomplishment, the other is that we want to show the people that are considering it what's possible. So it's twofold.

Kyle Gray:          

Now, I think that that's really incredible and, again, it builds a loyalty and it builds a tribe and it builds something a little bit bigger than yourself or any individual. And I think that this is something that the world really is craving. Many people are craving this sense of community, of recognition, of comradeship. And so, to many of the listeners out there, I'm sure you put a lot of thought into this kind of program and developing it and what are the key elements about it that makes it important, and I think that many people, even if they're in a very small business can emulate what you've done as far as building this community.

Can you share just some of the key elements or the key thoughts that you put into this? That somebody could take away and start to build their own hero program, per se?


Definitely. So, first and foremost, if you are not recognizing your customers for what they are doing with whatever it is you're offering, there's a huge opportunity that you're missing. Both in the social proof and ability to show the world what is possible with your product. But also, in that self-perpetuating referral machine, whenever you recognize somebody, they're going to recognize you back. So it's something that if you have a product that in any way creates transformation, impact, improvement, whatever value that product is giving somebody, give them an opportunity to showcase that, and when they showcase that, give them an opportunity to be rewarded and recognized in some fashion. So for us, we actually have built our Kajabi Hero program in its design purposefully to follow them along in every step of their Kajabi career.

So you actually have the ability, when you earn your first $1000, you're going to get the Kajabi hero t-shirt. That's really the one where everybody gets it, and it's like, "Wow, I did it. I'm on the path." And then as you continue to grow your Kajabi courses, you have the ability to then earn a hat, a hoodie sweatshirt, a pretty awesome jacket, then it moves into actually a backpack as well as a watch, and then finally, for our Kajabi million-dollar earners, we actually have a pretty amazing plaque, and there's also a couple of surprise presents along the way that I won't spoil the surprise.

But those are things that, I guess that's the main portion of the program, and then we've got a couple of little unique and fun ways to recognize people within it, so I share that example because don't think that, "Okay, I recognized a customer and it ends there." Because hopefully you have a product that you're either going to want them to buy over and over again, or you're going to want them to buy other products that you offer, or that there is some element of a customer journey that they're going to go down with you.

Find a spot at every point in that journey that you can recognize them. So don't stop with, "Hey, you did a great job." Start with, "Hey you did a great job, here's what we're going to do for you when you do an even bigger job" and an even bigger job and an even bigger job and recognize that by you celebrating them, they're going to become the greatest raving fans that are going to carry your brand into places you couldn't even imagine. And just before, you know, perfect example, I was on a call with a good friend of mine just before we actually jumped on this interview, and he actually was sharing with me that there's a movement called conscious capitalism. And he has a friend who's actually running the conscious capitalism movement in South America, and they are using our platform, and they are changing lives in South America with Kajabi.

I had no idea that that was even happening, so it's a great example of as you build this culture, it really becomes a flywheel that spins faster and faster and faster. And as you continue to make sure it is cared for, it will grow and move into places that you never would have imagined at the beginning.

Kyle Gray:          

That is incredible. I love the growth that's there that people can continue to develop and move forward. There's not really an end goal to any of this. And I want to take a little bit of a different tack as you were sharing some of the progress in your program. I know that many of my listeners have courses, are interested in creating courses, and I'm wondering kind of, if you have a good idea of the patterns of things that you need to master in order to go from what is getting from $1000 take, what does it take to get to that next milestone. Are we using email marketing? Are we using Facebook ad? How does the progression look generally? I know probably that for some people the conscious capitalists, are going to be very different than the yoga teacher, for example, but maybe there are some trends.


Well, it's interesting. A lot of people are oftentimes looking for the tactic. Or looking for the tool. And they begin to look at it through that lens. And we at Kajabi, we see success in every available tool and tactic you can imagine. I mean, I can show you individuals who have built seven figure businesses using nothing but Facebook Live. I can show individuals who have done it through blogging. I can show you people who have done it through email. I can show you people that have done it through YouTube. That the medium is really not what's important. It's the message that is important. And you choose the medium that really feels the most natural. If you like communicating in writing, email and blogging are probably your jam. If you're best live and on video, Facebook Live and YouTube is probably where you should be playing. If you love photography, Instagram's platform for you.

The marketing medium is not what is really important. It’s the message that’s important.

So I'd say it's much more of a journey of giving yourself permission to specialize in where you feel most comfortable, and also definitely learn marketing and sales. I think that there's a lot of people out there that feel that because they have a course, people will buy the course. And the reality of it is, everything in life needs to be sold. Literally. If you look back over the course of your life, the friends that you've had, the relationships you've had, the jobs that you've had. The interviews, every aspect of every decision that you have made, at some point, was sold to you.

And so I really feel like a lot of people in this industry have really gotten this incorrect assumption that selling and marketing are wrong. That if I have a product I don't need to sell it or I don't need to market it, and to me, when I think about that, I always share the Dan Sullivan definition of sales that I've always loved, which selling is simply getting people intellectually engaged in a future result that is good for them and getting them emotionally charged to take action on that outcome. And if you describe selling that way, it very quickly becomes something that if ask yourself the follow-up question, which I think Joe Polish added, but the follow-up question to that definition of selling is, if that's how you view selling, who are you being when you're doing that?

And the eventual conclusion is, you're probably the best version of yourself. You're the most convincing, you're the most confident, you're the most excited, you're the most enthusiastic. All of those great qualities come out because you're helping someone get intellectually engaged in a future result that's good for them. And you're getting them emotionally charged to take action on that result. So I would certainly say that the difference between someone who launches a course and makes $1000 or makes a dollar, and the person who launches the course and makes a million dollars, the difference is that willingness and that commitment to market, package, and sell you to your marketplace.

Kyle Gray:          

That's incredible. And also very encouraging and simple, and again, ties back to how you started this with think and grow rich. Finding that purpose, finding that message. Creating that future, and creating a future that is bright enough and compelling enough that people want to join you in that and invest in that.

And I think that's along this topic, the selling and creating a future that people really want to be a part of. This doesn't only impact your customers. But it impacts your team and who works with you, and how hard they work for you, and the creativity and inspiration they feel while in your business or working with you, and so I have a couple of questions. This will be like two questions stacked onto each other, but the first one is you've said that you've got a story-driven business, at Kajabi, and we've heard lots of stories today, and I think that the Hero program is an excellent example of that, but could you tell me what a story-driven business means to you, and then how that relates to your team?


Definitely. A story-driven business, to me ... And you know, it's interesting, because the idea of story and what it represents, I just view story as simply a teaching device. Story is a methodology of conveying information, and if you look at all of the greatest influencers, teachers, spiritual icons, all of them have one thing in common. Regardless of your beliefs, they all taught in story. That was probably the most impactful methodology of knowledge transference that there is. So if you're looking for something as far as the best way to impact and influence people, it's story.

Story is the most impactful methodology of knowledge transference that there is

Now, as it relates to being a story-driven company and having a team around you that shares that vision, we at Kajabi have a very interesting balance in that regard, because if you think about it, we are building a life-changing product that needs to be on the cutting edge of technology, that we have one of the most talented teams on the planet, in my opinion, in building it, but yet our message is empowering entrepreneurship, that literally, we have a team every day that is building a tool that at any moment they could say, "Gosh, you know, I think I really want to do my own thing and I think I know the platform I'm going to do it on." So the vision and who we're impacting and how we're impacting them is extremely important.

And so, for us, it all starts with our Kajabians, our Kajabi members is the number one core value of the company. The ability to know, every day, that you are waking up, working on a platform that is equipping entrepreneurs all over the globe is incredibly inspiring. That inspiration is also met with a very purposeful desire to have a very intrapreneurial organization, that we never want someone in Kajabi to feel like their journey is capped or that they don't know where their ascension path is, or that they're in a role and they don't know where they can go from there. We have an organization where lots of people in our organization have moved up faster and further than they ever thought possible in any other organization that would be possible for them because we really try to inspire that entrepreneurial desire within our own organization.

So we have an organization where that story of empowering entrepreneurs not only is outward facing but it's also inward reflective because all of our team members know that if they've got a plan, and they can talk to us about the outcomes, we're going to equip them to get them there. So it's really, for us, maintaining that alignment, that if we're empowering entrepreneurs outside of Kajabi, we want to make sure we're empowering intrapreneurs inside of Kajabi.

Kyle Gray:          

Wow. That's really, really important. I've heard countless, countless times from entrepreneurs who don't want to hire entrepreneurial people because they fear they'll be on board for a little while, they'll go start their own thing. You're going in the complete opposite direction of that. But, I think that that ... What you're doing is you're really anticipating a reality that this is the world, at least as far as I see the trends going, that we're going to be living in. There's very few ... Nobody stays at a single job for a very long time, but by creating a space for entrepreneurship, or intrapreneurship, as you were saying, and being able to allow people to feel cultivated and grow and challenge within your company, allows them to kind of field that purpose and that growth without feeling the need that they're stifled.

I would love to hear, if you've got a specific story of maybe a project or a team member that you were working or with, that really embodies what this looks like so that our listeners can get a taste of what creating this kind of culture in their own organizations would look like.


Sure. One of my favorite stories about this is actually our VP of product, Jeremy Saenz, one of the most brilliant minds when it comes to solving the challenges that our users face and coming up with elegant, innovative solutions that really answer multiple problems at one time, and being able to formulate those in ways that are pretty impressive. He leads our entire product team. But, if you rewind about a year ago, we didn't have a product team, and so, we, as a company, we really are so active in the industry, that at the time, we never saw a product team as being incredibly necessary because both Kenny and myself are in the trenches every day, in this knowledge commerce space, so we always felt that we had a good grasp on product and direction. Kenny always has been the product leader, the product owner. It's really been where he's spent the majority of his time impacting the business.

And so, Jeremy started kind of saying, "Hey, this idea of product is exciting, and I think we could serve our users differently," and we're like, "All right, well, let us know when you got a plan." So all of a sudden that plan then was built on a foundation of multiple books, talking about what a product team is, how it functions, how it impacts the company, the roles that a product team needs. Fast forward a year, we now have a robust, multi-member product team that is rapidly prototyping ideas before they go into development, that has reinvented our help desk, knowledge base, all of the things in an integrated fashion, with the product, and is now attending conferences and literally, becoming a thought leader in not only our organization internally, but also completely revolutionizing what we bring to market and how we bring it to market.

That was completely borne out of ... I guess Jeremy beginning to listen to that whisper of being a driven and focused individual saying, "You know, I really think we should have this, and I think I should be the one to do it." He took it on, owned it, and he's now the one doing it. We've got countless stories like that within Kajabi, where people have said, "I see a need, and I see a need that I can impact, and I want to be the person to do it, and I want a path that's meaningful for me if I do." Those are our favorite conversations to have because it really is something that ... For people that don't want to hire entrepreneurs, what that says to me is, "I don't want to hire anybody that's driven." An entrepreneur is a combination of a lot of different characteristics, but the reality of it is if you're saying, "I don't want to hire anybody that's driven, you're never going to have the A players that are going to take your company to the next level." So for us, we've always welcomed that ambition as something that we're excited to have.

Kyle Gray:          

That is incredible. You've welcomed it, and you've found a way to challenge it to its highest potential, which I think is a beautiful thing. Jonathan, we've covered all kinds of ground today from creating a big vision in your own life, and a story that people will want to get behind, to how do you build a business online. How do you teach people? How do you build a great team? I would just love to close it out ... I don't know if there's kind of one big lesson or one big idea, and maybe we can go back to kind of your original opening thought ... that you can kind of close this out on that, is at the core spirit of everything here.


Yeah, I would just say for anybody listening, you should be living life on your terms. The only thing standing in the way of you living life on your terms is your creativity and commitment. Those are the only two categories that matter because we have never lived in an age where technology was more readily available, reasonably priced, and the ability to access audiences of any and every kind, for you to build a business that matters to you. So if you're listening to this and wondering what you should do next, just get going.

The only thing standing in the way of you living life on your terms is your creativity and commitment

It's certainly something that we have an industry that I think a lot of people get mired in the confusion. I talk to entrepreneurs all the time that "Hey, how does Kajabi help me?" It's like, "Oh, well, you know, it basically is your online business platform. Every aspect of it's covered." And they're like, "Oh, well, can I split test this page 37 Ways Using a Taguchi Methodology?" And I'm like, "Well, have you ever sold anything online before?" "No, I haven't yet." "Okay, if you haven't sold anything online yet, you probably don't need 37 ways to multivariate testing, you just need a page. You just need a page."

So I think that the industry, in the best of intentions of equipping entrepreneurs, has made the journey so scary and so complex, that people feel like they've got to know everything before they do anything, and so I would just say that literally, life on your terms is within your grasp, as long as you've got the creativity to find what it is, and the commitment to see it through. We've got tens of thousands of entrepreneurs that are living proof that it's there for you as soon as you want it.

Kyle Gray:          

Jonathan, an incredible way to bring this all together. Excuse me, JCron.


That's okay. Mom and Dad would be thrilled that you're calling me Jonathan. So the rest of the industry knows me as JCron, but I'll respond to both. You can call me anything but Late For Dinner.

Kyle Gray:          

Perfect. Well, where can our audience go to learn a little bit more about Kajabi, see if it's a good fit for them? I'm sure that you have all kinds of ... being an educational platform ... all kinds of great education and content on your site that can help to empower us.


Oh my gosh. We literally put together courses and training opportunities that anybody else would charge for, so go over to, that's There are unbelievable resources there for you to begin exploring this idea of knowledge commerce and digital entrepreneurship. If I can help you, personally, at all on your journey, you can hit me up on Facebook or Instagram and Twitter @thejcron. Happy to help in any way I can.

Kyle Gray:          

Wow. Okay. Thank you so much. This has been a lot of fun. Yeah, I've come away with a lot, so thank you JCron for joining us on the show today. I wish you the best in continuing to create this better future.


Thanks, Kyle. Absolute pleasure.

Kyle Gray:          

Thanks for listening to The Story Engine podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes and resources mentioned in this episode, and every episode, at If you want to tell better stories and grow your business with content marketing and copywriting, be sure to download the content strategy template at This template is an essential part of any business that wants to boost their traffic, leads, and sales, with content marketing. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.