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The Story Engine Podcast: Where we teach you how to make marketing easier, more powerful and fun through storytelling. Each week we learn from top entrepreneurs, influencers and world-changers on how to share your story through content, copywriting, speaking and how to make your story your most powerful marketing tool.

Oct 16, 2018

Today on the show we have Jon Nastor. He is the host of Hack the Entrepreneur: An incredibly successful podcast, and incredibly successful book, and he has many other different entrepreneurial adventures that he's going to share with us today. It’s about getting out there creating things, iterating and moving forward. I think that this is such an important message for many content marketers out there, for many people who have a message they want to share or a business they want to create.


Key Takeaways

[4:32] Why Jon decided to go all-in in podcasting

[10:28] How to get beyond “it’s all been done before”

[16:00] The secret to Jon’s success

[18:55] How Jon’s podcast changed his professional and personal life

[22:15] How to create a successful Mastermind

[29:05] Building and sustaining vibrant digital communities


Jon Nastor Information

Hack The Entrepreneur

Hack the Entrepreneur Podcast

Hack the Entrepreneur Courses




The Showrunner Podcast

Mighty Networks


Transcript of Podcast

Kyle Gray:        

Hello everyone and welcome to the Story Engine Podcast. Today on the show we have Jon Nastor. He is the host of Hack the Entrepreneur. An incredibly successful podcast, and incredibly successful book, and has many other different entrepreneurial adventures that he's going to share with us today. Now, I just loved this interview so much. He had this excellent theme of an artist. He started as a musician, and we're going to hear a little bit about that.

But just getting out there creating things, iterating and moving forward. And I think that this is such an important message for many content marketers out there, for many people who have a message they want to share, who have a business they want to create, who want to get out in front of people to really listen to, and dig deep on a lot of the things that he has to say today. So, I'm gonna turn it over to him because he says it better than me. So over to Jon.

Jon Nastor, welcome to the Story Engine Podcast. How are you doing today?

Jon Nastor:    

I'm doing excellent. How are you?

Kyle Gray:    

I'm doing great. Even better to be talking to you, a podcast brilliant mastermind. And, I'm super excited, but I want to make sure everybody listening knows who you are, and what you're all about. So, give us the 30,000-foot view of you, Hack the Entrepreneur Podcast, and what you're up to these days.

Jon Nastor:    

So, I didn't set this up intentionally Kyle, but I started ... Hack the Entrepreneur's my main podcast and business now. I started it four years ago this very day. I realized that last week that I was like, "Oh, it's gonna be right on that day." At the time prior to that, I was running a software company. And, I ended up in the Philippines with some smart podcasters and people. About 20 of them the winter before.

I was kind of stuck in a weird place where I had built the business that I wanted, the laptop beach sort of thing, and my family and I were traveling in Asia and other parts of the world. And, it just got where I wanted to do something more, and I wasn't sure what that was. And so, these smart people named John and Pat, and such, they were like, "Start a podcast." I was like, "No way." Never interviewed anybody. Start a podcast. Nope.

And then finally ... Actually, when we came home from Europe, there was podcasting gear that you see here, was given to me and daughter actually, because she started a podcast at the same time. By Pat Flynn was at our door. And I sat on it for two months, and then I finally was like, "Okay, I'm gonna do it." And I was intending to do 30 shows, and that was it, just keep selling software. But at 30 shows I had to make a decision. I did. I got out of software, and I went all the way into this. And, now it's four years today, Kyle.

Kyle Gray:    

Wow. Well, there's a lot of things I want to unpack in there. But, the first one is, how are you celebrating your podcast-aversary?

Jon Nastor:    

Recorded an interview. This is the second interview. And they did a Live Show Runner, which is my other podcast, Live Show Runner event today as well.

Kyle Gray:    

How apropos. Perfect. That's really exciting. And, tell me a little bit about that moment when you were at your 30 episodes, and you had this company. And it seemed like it was going well, it was a proven track record of an idea. And then you had this podcast, and you had to go one direction or the other. What was going on in your mind there? And, why did you connect to this road?

Jon Nastor:    

I've kind of lived my life by, I'd rather regret doing something than not doing something. I really don't want to look back and wonder what I could've done at that point. I felt like I figured out what I could do with software. At least at that level that I was at. And it was great, but there was this point where I either need to go all into this, or I should just stop like I wanted to. But, there felt like there was sort of a spark there.

Like, I got way more downloads than I expected, I had a sponsor already. All these things that I just didn't really want to happen, it did. And so, I thought, "I'm gonna do it." I'm gonna do it for 12 months, and I'm gonna just see how far I can take this. See where it goes. If it turns out to nothing, who cares? At least I won't have to look back four years later and be like, "I wonder how far I could've taken that show that I ran four years ago."

So I just went with it. Sold off the software, or my portion of it. And, just went all in on this. And then things spiraled quickly after that and kept growing. And, it seemed like the right decision. Still does.

Kyle Gray:    

Well, I think one of the reasons that power a lot of really good decisions that we make, and help us navigate those tough, "Do I do this? Do I do that?" Kind of moments is usually having a good mission or a good purpose underneath it as the foundation for what drives what we're doing and allows us to feel confident moving forward into uncertain waters like that. And I'm wondering, what is it, maybe personally ... Do you have a personal mission and philosophy? And what is the mission of Hack the Entrepreneur Podcast?

Jon Nastor:    

At the time there was no mission except to see where I could take it. I lived in a tiny, tiny little city in Canada, which is a massive place. Literally in the middle of nowhere. You had to get into a car and drive. It was eight hours driving on a highway completely South, and you'd get to Minneapolis. Which is one of your most Northern parts of America, and that was South to me. And so, I thought it was fascinating that I could create something and reach tens of thousands of people from a basement office in the middle of nowhere.

So, once I realized this it just seemed like ... So the story is that right after that, about three months after I made that decision, I got into a relationship of sorts with Copy Blogger Media. Because I had Bryan Clark on the show. And, the second that our interview was done he was just like, "I have an idea." And he was like, "We're starting a podcast network," and he's like, "Your story is amazing with what you started from where you are. I have this Jared guy, and we have so many people that want to learn how to podcast. And, you guys have actually done it yourself without any help from wacky places."

"So, I want to put you guys together. You'll also start another show and create a community around it." Once that happened, the passion behind it and the purpose is to prove to people that it's this DIY sort of ethic that stems back from me and punk rock and stuff. But, it's this idea that there are no excuses anymore about why you aren't doing big, cool things. Like, you can't tell me that it's geography because I literally lived in the middle of nowhere. You can't tell me that it's a lack of experience because I had never interviewed anybody before.

So, I'm just now driven to help other people in any way that I can to get to that point where you can make that decision to go all into it and just see where it goes. Because I think that it's a place where we can all get to. And, I think it's super rewarding and fulfilling place to be. And I think, just with the world we live in, the technology the way it is, that it's all right at our fingertips, we just have to do it. So, my job is to kick as many people in the ass that need kicking to do that. Because they're scared.

Lots of people they think that it's because they see somebody ... Like, four years later it's like you're doing all this stuff. But yes, but I started back actually further than where you right now. It's a lot of that where, people who get onto podcasts, people who get onto have popular YouTube channels. It's like, we see them after they've been through all the hard work.

People are probably watching this now and had no idea who I ever was. And it's like, but yes, there's four years prior that you don't know about. It's just from this point on is what you see. So, I want to close that gap for people and show them that where you're at now, it's the place to start. Doesn't matter.

Kyle Gray:    

I think another really common thing that I get with a lot of people I work with, and I've experienced myself in many ways, is thinking, "Well, it's all been done before." There's so many of these kinds of podcasts, these kinds of blogs, these kinds of YouTube channels. How am I going to add something different or unique? And, I'm sure you've experienced many, many people who have had that kind of question. What do you do to work with them through that? I think there are two kinds of answers I'm wanting from you

One is the mindset change that they'll need to go through. And maybe another one is a more practical, how do you find your own unique voice in creating content and building out a brand?

Jon Nastor:   

The mindset is tangible too. It's, the uniqueness comes from what you're gonna create, even if it's on the surface or the exact same topic as 1,000 other things like it. If you can, as you said, push through and find yourself in that and bring that true self out, that's it, that's your uniqueness. There literally is nobody else like you. Whether that's your corky voice, or your weird opinion on things because of the music you like. We're all unique in that way.

And, I think that a lot of us when we start, we try and emulate people that we like. That's just how we start. And that's natural. So then you can fall into the path where it's like, okay but at some point, you have to push through that, and then be able to pull yourself back, and then bring yourself out. And when you can bring yourself out, it doesn't matter if you're doing an entrepreneurial ship interview podcast, of which there are hundreds and hundreds like I do.

If it's you, and you can bring that to it in just your way, there's nobody that can compete with that. It's just how it is. It's not even like a whole overly complicated thing. Obviously, you should find gaps in marketplaces, those kinds of things, from a marketing perspective or positioning perspective. But if you're just looking to find your voice, or to find your uniqueness, it literally is just that, finding it, truly.

And, the way I've seen it with hundreds and hundreds of podcasters I've worked with now is that we have a certain amount of bad radio in all of us. And, it's the fact that you have to be willing to publish. Whether it's words you're typing, or you're on video, or you're on audio, you have to be able to push through that. Some of us have bad radio where we can record 20 episodes, and it's terrible. Some of us it's 50, like me. It was about 100 before I kind of started getting good.

And you have to be willing to push through because, what's coming out of you right now is the stuff that has to be torn away to find underneath, it's like, "There it is. I slowly got rid of all of my influences and everything that was there, and now it's just me." And now I can build it from there in the idea that I want. And then, somebody else can emulate me until they find themselves. So, it's really knowing that-

Jon Nastor:    

Until they find themselves. So it's really knowing that the process of this is becoming aware of how much bad radio you have in you. Whether that's writing or not. And just pushing through and believing that on the other side of that is the person that you're looking for.

Kyle Gray:    

I think that's so incredible and you answered both of these questions in one extremely practical thing. And I think it's encouraging for people out there to know maybe you don't need to have all the answers. And part of the journey, part of doing this is how you will discover your unique advantage and what people resonate with, but you have to be willing to put yourself out there. And I love that you were talking about getting different influences, and iterations, and practice. And a lot of this sounds very similar to kind of finding your groove as a musician. And I know that you have a lot of experience as a musician as well. And so I'd like to know, I'd like to hear just a little bit about your story and your experience as a musician and maybe how it's influenced not just your podcasting, which it's audio work and I think there's a lot of easy crossover between the two. But I also think like with what I was just kind of hearing from you there. It's influenced your mindset, and your problem solving, and how you go about the world.

Jon Nastor:    

Yeah. More than I would ... More than I knew. Looking back on it now, it makes sense. Right, which we've all heard. So I started playing in bands, I think when I was 14 or 15. I'm a drummer. And I joined some punk rock bands. I toured the country for the first time. I think I was in grade 11. I remember the other guys in the band were in university and so my last exam of the year, there was a van outside waiting with all our gear and I just got in and went on tour. And again, I lived in a small place. And bands didn't typically play there very much, but they had to drive through because of the way Canada is set up, you have to drive through because we're in the middle and there's only really one road that goes across east to west. And it was early on. And I had this friend who was about 10 years older than me. And it was just natural to him.

We just started putting on shows. We would find out that these bands are coming. And rather than just hope that somebody would put on a show and then hope that our band could play. We just did it. We'd go to a community center, we'd rent it out, we'd get somebody to come in and put some speakers up, we'd go to the grocery store and buy cans of pop and stuff for obviously cheaper and be able to sell them for a dollar and all that stuff. And we would make money. We would get to play with these bands that we wanted. Plus, the most important thing was we got to see the shows that we wanted to see. And it was this ethic of if you want something to exist, if you want to accomplish something, if you want to do something, don't wait for somebody else to do it. Just literally do it yourself, which is what the DIY ethic of punk rock comes from.

And so from there I literally ... It was just a couple years. And then all of a sudden I ended up living on the west coast and I just started working for a construction company. And within three months it was like I was off and I had my own business. And then I grew that, and then I got rid of that, and it was just ... That's kind of what I've done and the punk rock 100% stem trimmed that. And I think that's why I was drawn to podcasting. Once I started and then made the connection to pirate radio and stuff it was like, I can literally create whatever I want. I put it out there from the middle of nowhere, and there are people listening. That, to me, is baffling. And again, I didn't realize it at the time, but now looking back, it's 100% because in high school it was like if you want this band to play in your town, just put on the show. And I just always thought that.

I never understood people waiting that somebody would ... And that means I'd carry over to software. It's like, well I want this thing to exist. And rather than just launching it, I'd just be like, "Oh, cool, that's a great idea. I'm gonna create that for myself," and I know that I'm not a unique enough snowflake that I'm the only one like me in the world. I know there are at least 100, or 1000, or 10,000 other people that would have that same need. So there we go. We've got a marketplace. So that way of thinking, which is don't wait for gatekeepers actually avoid in those markets that they are still in. And just build what it is you want to see, what it is you want to hear, what it is you want to exist in the world. And trust that you're not unique enough to be the only one who would also want that to exist.

Avoid the gatekeepers in similar markets and just build what you want to exist in the world

Kyle Gray:    

That is incredible. Yeah, really fun punk rock philosophy to bring to anybody. And it's liberating too to see it that way. To take all of the pressure off of having all the right ideas or having to know how it's gonna play out and have a perfect kind of model for it. Just going, making it happen, learning, and growing from it. And I'm sure that just like your experience as a musician has influenced your entrepreneurship and your podcasting, I'd love to know now you've had lots of different experiences, lots of different influences. But over these past four years, how has the podcast, the people you've met and connected with, this process of getting through your bad radio and uncovering yourself, how has that impacted you as an entrepreneur, maybe your mindset, and how you approach problem-solving and entrepreneurship these days?

Jon Nastor:    

It has ... It completely encompasses everything in my life at this point. And not even directly, but the websites that I write for, or the people that I have partnerships with and things, or the fact that we don't live in that tiny place in the middle of nowhere, we live in downtown Toronto now because we can. All of those things are influenced 100% by the podcast. In that way, it's given me that sort of, I guess, freedom to do that and to do everything else that I do.

And the whole bad radio and pushing through, it was I think it was four months after I started the podcast when asked if I would write for them. And I had never written a blog post in my life at the time. I was ... I mean, except for product sort of blog posts, like here's the sort of changelog of our software sort of thing. But it was ... I didn't understand content marketing at that time. And then this was like, "Oh, you want to write this?" And I was just like, "Okay," I thought it was really cool. It had helped the show a lot. And then a year after that, I ended up putting out a book that sold quite a few copies. And it was ... I was being interviewed for the book six months after it came out and somebody called me a writer. And I was like, "What? I'm not a writer." It was like, "But you have a book, and you write for lots of-," like, "Oh, yeah. Never thought of that."

And it was just kind of like ... It opened up opportunities and then some of them I ran with, some of them I didn't because they didn't seem right. But in the way that it has ... The things I've created have completely changed sort of every aspect. Including the people I hang out with, the people who are friends people, who are new friends now that I live in Toronto. Because the first friends I had here are people, who had been on my show before. You know what I mean? I belonged to a mastermind group of two other guys that we talk every single week for an hour and a half. And we have since that time in Asia when I was with those 20 people before the show started. These guys have been through it, the whole thing, with me. Pushing through the bad radio. All those things. And use them as feedback and keep going. Those guys would be there without that. So it's ... Yeah. Every aspect has been fundamentally changed and driven in some way indirectly or directly by this.

Kyle Gray:    

That is so just inspiring. I love that you've brought it in again. This is a theme that I get from almost everybody I speak with that the community and the connection and the opportunity that comes from not just connecting with your audience, which you had some incredible listeners to bring those opportunities, but also incredible colleagues and peers to be working with. And something I don't think I've discussed on this show, but is incredibly important to me, and I think an amazing resource for especially people just starting out, is a mastermind. And I'd love to hear a little bit about your mastermind process. How you discuss things, what do you discuss, how do you kind of balance those things with the two people you're masterminding with.

Jon Nastor:    

Yeah for sure. So my mastermind relationship is pretty serious at this point. If you can see it on video, I've got an M tattoo actually. The last time we met in person was in San Diego, and we decided to get matching M tattoos on the same spot. But I met these two guys. There was actually four of us at the beginning. But I think about three months or so into it, the one guy was just erratic and wouldn't always show up. And we just got rid of him. And so the three of us did not know each other. The last day of that small conference in the Philippines, one of them was just like, "Hey, John. You want to join our Mastermind?" I was like, "I don't quite know what that is, but yeah. Sounds fun."

And it was ... To explain it now, again, is four years, four and a half years into it with them. So we figured out a lot of stuff. But again, looking back on it, Kyle, it's like any relationship. It had to evolve in so many different ways. We've tried so many different things like formats and just ways of doing things to keep it going. And there's been times I think when all three of us have at separate times have been just like, "It's a slug. I don't want to necessarily do it." But now it's like every ... At the end of every year when we're sort of setting our goals together, we're just like, yeah, it's just understood. Of course, we're gonna do this for the next year. And we're gonna do this for the next year.

So what we figured out now, which we figured out years ago, which works the best for ... The one thing I think that's key to it. I mean, having people ... It's like being in a band. I've always said being in a band is like being married to two or three people at the same time because you have to have these direct relationships and working relationships. And everybody's got all their external stuff going on, and yet you still have to work things out, so you don't just blow up and disband. But one thing that's really kept us on is we never end a call without having the next call scheduled and already on our calendars for next week. Because at the beginning it was kind of like, "Well, let's just talk about it," right? And then it's like, "Well, no. I can't do-" And all of a sudden it's the end of the week, and you miss it.

So to me, that's simple on and now for a format, if you want to get just technical about it, our format, which has been the best one by far. And we started this one about a year and a half ago, which is we do an hour and a half call. 10 minutes just talking, just catching up sort of thing. And then the next ... Well, the rest of it or 20 is for the one person on the hot seat. And again, to keep that super simple so that it ... Because we found we're coming in ... It's like, "Is it ... Am I on the hot seat?" And then you couldn't prepare, so it's like let's just do it alphabetically. So it's like, Andreas, John, Nathan, Andreas, John, Nathan.

And just literally things that seem so small and insignificant but they're the things that have allowed us to literally do it for four and a half years and never miss a time. And we've also met I think on most continents together at different times. We try and meet twice a year in person in different places. And the last one was in San Diego because they both happen to live there now. That also helps with it. But really it's ... I've been in sort of other mastermind type things since then. Like while this one's been going on. And sometimes, I found that you couldn't get deep enough because it wasn't a long enough format and so you don't really get anything out of it. Or it was never scheduled in advance, so it was always just a, "Oh well it's just ..." and you're on the flight texting each other trying to figure out times that work for everybody and it just doesn't work. So we literally ... It's just on the calendar. It's set. If for some reason you have to change it, then we change it on that call. But otherwise, same time, same place next week. And going to over an hour has been really profound in the change that it's gotten because usually what happens is the person on the hot seat which is-

Jon Nastor:    ... it's gotten, because usually, what happens, is the person on the hot seat, which is me tomorrow, usually, around 40 minutes, you're like, "Oh, okay, well, I'm done. That's all of my problems." Then the other guy is, "No, you're not done." Then it's like, they start digging deeper into things, like, "Oh, jeez, here we go." But it really allows it to open up, and obviously, share, and get personal, when they know everything about me. Same with them, so, I guess, it's the two things, which is, really go into it, wanting, knowing that it's a relationship that takes work. It takes work, beyond, just the actual act of masterminding. There's going to be times where you just don't want to do it, but you just need to, because you know that the overall benefit is better for it.

Then the other is really, sort of, push your format, so that everybody gets a really good chunk of time. That's where you'll get the real benefit out of it, and then, scheduled everything in advance so that there's no need to ever miss. Because we all know how things work. Like any habit, it's so easy to miss, and once you miss, it's so hard to get it going again.

But if you just keep things going, once we have a habit, it's great. So just keep it going, and try to not miss it.

Kyle Gray:    

Oh, my gosh, I think that it is very rare. I have not heard of many people who have maintained Masterminds for that level of time, and I've been in a few myself, that, I was just about, for the exact reasons that you mentioned.

Somebody misses a one-day, and then, it's, like, "Oh, well, I don't know what to do." I also think I really am impressed by the, moving it beyond an hour, because I do think that it does allow for much more time, to kind of dig deeper, and uncover those things, where, just an hour, yeah.

You may be able to get through, kind of the surface things that you're thinking about. But it would be a scary thing, especially as a busy entrepreneur, to think, "Okay, well, now, we're going for this long of a format. What can I really talk about for that long?"

What I love about this, and just, the theme that I'm hearing from you, throughout this whole show, in all of your approaches, is just this persistence to allow it to evolve, and become what it is, to become the gem, from something that's kind of lumpy, and not quite great yet, to something that's really beautiful, really valuable and really important.    

On this note of community, I want to segue into discussing your own community, that you've been working on, you mentioned in, as may be part of the Podcast-a-versary Celebration. Tell us about your community, and tell us why ... I'd love to hear about it as it's real for you and your business, and what it's done for you, and then, what it means to create a valuable community for people, and how can other listeners build a membership community, like, what you have?

Jon Nastor:    

So I've really struggled, Kyle, with building communities, and I think I'm actually realizing now that that was because I was trying to build them on Facebook, and Facebook's kind of like a dumpster fire, and everyone was just distracted, and there's just no way of getting ahold of people anymore. So we moved the community over to Mighty Networks, which you can use actually for free, just with minimal things, and they've got an iPhone app built, it's amazing to work with.

We moved it over to there, and it's only recent. I think, a month and a half ago, we started, and we have just over 400 people in it. It's for podcasting, and people wanting to start podcasts, people who have run podcasts, and it's ... I guess you're going to say, probably, it's like the theme of most of my things. It's like, a real work in progress.

That's just how I take things. Like, today, as long as I'm better tomorrow than I was today, we're good. As long as the community is better tomorrow than it is today, we're good. It doesn't have to be perfect when we launch it. We're going to have to try things that work. We're going to have to try things that don't work. We're going to ask the community for feedback, but then, also, we're going to guide it, because we are at the helm, and somebody has to take charge.

So, yeah, the community's been amazing, in that sense. I do have a co-host with it, which has been really good, and most of the people, I got to say, at least three-quarters of those people, came directly off an e-mail list. Lots of them bid on there, for a year or two more, so they knew us really well, they trusted us, and they just came right into the community, and lots of them sort of, just took ownership of it.

It was like, we had this community that was just brimming, and waiting to be placed somewhere, where they could all just kind of go together. So Mighty Networks has enabled us to do that, in such a, an amazing way. It's so simple, in the sense of technology and stuff. When we started, we were going to, "What sort of WordPress plug-ins we use?" It was just like, "Oh, screw this, let's go to Mighty Networks."

[bctt tweet="Facebook is like a dumpster fire with too many distractions, that’s why I use Mighty Networks which is simple and effective. -Jon Nastor " username="kylethegray"]

It's amazing what it does, in the way it sort of brings in conversation, so, we've been holding, we do ... every two weeks now, we do office hours, so we do go live, zoom, right in one of the, I guess, categories in there. And we answer people's questions live. We, even, we record our weekly podcast. We also do it live in there, so people can watch it live, and they can ask us questions, that we'll answer right after the show.

Then it publishes out to, well, then we added it if they wanted to publish it out, but it kind of gives people a unique, I guess, perspective. And sort of, an inside, they get to see the unedited version of us, and they get to hopefully learn from us, and then, also learn within us in it. We've moderated it somewhat because things can fall apart quickly, but I mean, it's been great, and it has a lot of places where it can get better, I think.

But, like, everything, that's the iterative process, right? It's like, it'll only be at its worst today. It'll never be this bad again. We'll just make it better and better and better, and so, we've really ... I know you want strategy, but we really just launched Mighty Networks, and we just talked about equipment on Slack. Then, four hours later, Jared's like, "Check this out!" It was like, "oh, wow, that's cool," and then, next day, it's like, "You should e-mail people about this, and just see how it goes."

Running a community is still really hard. It's really intense, but having grown ... the show's at 125 episodes, or something. We had those people on an e-mail list, so they were an audience, and they weren't a community yet, but because we had nourished them for so long, they just were ready to make that transformation, from audience to community, and it would be really hard, I think, to have the same successes, if you were starting from scratch, and didn't have that audience already.

If you have a well established and nourished email list, you can easily transform them into a community

So maybe we were, I guess, blessed in that way, or we had just planned it that way, but having that audience bringing them into a place that's really good to use, where other people could help, and then, just having the mindset, that, it does not have to be perfect today. It will get better, we'll work on getting it better, and people can kind of come along for the ride and follow us, and hopefully, learn about it, too.    

I think three other communities already have come on Mighty Networks from that one thing, people on ours, in our community, that are like, "I'm starting one of these for my show." It's like, "That's pretty cool to see, so ..." That's my non-answer for your great question.

Kyle Gray:    

No way, I think that that was a great answer, and it all, it does all string together, where you start, you create something, you share your story, you spread your message, you hone yourself, and you learn about your unique voice, the unique value that you add, and through time, you are not just creating value, by what you're saying or what you're doing, but you create things that are valuable and connect with the audience and the relationships that you've already built, you have already connected with.

I think that that's a true kind of effort, of generosity, and a willingness to experiment and iterate on what you're doing. This whole, kind of interview, has led up to what could make a great community. Which I think is almost a Holy Grail of a product, for a lot of different entrepreneurs out there. The one thing I noticed about you is that you didn't see it as a product at all, or it was something exciting that you wanted to bring forward.

I think that's exactly the right attitude, and that's what's going to connect, and that's probably the difference between many of the communities of other people that see it, as just like, "Let's get a nice recurring revenue play going." I think that, in this day and age, people can see through it, very easily. So, Jon-

Jon Nastor:    

It gets, can I just, I guess, push that a little bit further? Because, I mean, in the basic sense, Kyle, we do have ... every Monday, we put out certain posts, and on Friday, we wrap it up. Like, accountability. We do have the Wednesday live recordings, you know what I mean? We are consciously pushing forth content, in a very formatted sort of way, so people get used to it, and then, it also shows people, how else they should be sharing within the community.

Kyle Gray:    


Jon Nastor:    

Those kinds of things are all open to change. We're always open to getting the feedback, and just learning and growing from it. Like, from the very beginning, I mean, Jared and I both know enough about it, and enough about the content side of it, that people do need consistency. Creating anything from scratch is hard, so having very formatted, sort of, structured, things throughout the week or throughout the month, has helped a lot.

I think it helps the community really get comfortable within it. But, yeah, beyond that, it's taking that audience and moving them over, and then ... it's also, I got to give credit to Mighty Networks. I'm not an affiliate or anything, but they also have this really impressive checklist at the beginning, of ways to, like, how to set it all up. What you should be putting here, what you should do as intros, what you should be sending as content, at first, to get people going, so they know that the only way for them to succeed is to help you succeed, with your community.

So they really do help you through that, and sort of hold your hand. But at the same time, you need that audience to bring them in.

Kyle Gray:    

Powerful. Well, Jon, this has been a total honor, so much fun talking to you, and breaking down your own story, your own Mindset, and there is so much good information that, that we can take away from this episode.

So we've talked a lot about where we can find you, where we can listen to you, but please tell us where we can get in touch with you, where we can learn more, where we can hear your show, and anywhere else, that would be a great place to connect with you.

Jon Nastor:    

For sure. The main hub of it all is Getting onto that e-mail list right there is a great place to start. It'll allow you to get into where you want to get into, which will benefit you.

And then, Showrunner is what we're talking about here, which is at, is the website. Right at the top, you can see community. If you want to see the community there, 30 days, you can get it in and try it, absolutely for free, and see what it is, and see if it's something that you could build for yourself.

So, if you want social media, I'd say, go to Twitter. It's the only one that I can actually use. I love Twitter. So if you have any questions, or you just want to say hi, by all means, head over there, and track me down.

Kyle Gray:    

Sounds great. Jon, such a pleasure, and happy Podcast-a-versary to you.

Jon Nastor:    

Thanks. It's been fun.

Kyle Gray:    

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